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March 10, 2008

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Elliot Spitzer came to office on a moderate platform, driven by a vague, advertising-hyped promise to change "everything."

Interesting you wrote that, TW. I've been wondering today if Spitzer's fall from grace would give Obama fans pause.

Guess not. Seems like they've just dug their heels in deeper.

Elliot Spitzer wins the George W. Bush Extreme Arrogance Award for 2008. He must know he's got a long list of enemies in and out of government who are watching him like a hawk. How can he take such risks knowing what he's up against? Arrogance. It has brought down a few, taught a good lesson to many others. As someone who enthusiastically voted for Spitzer, I feel anger and frustration. He was our guy in there, and now the Republicans will have a field day. Anyone who thinks 'if its good for Obama, I'm OK with it' is an idiot. This is bad for the Democratic party in New York, and that should depress any Democrat. The problem is, we have this foolish battle for the nomination that hurting our chances of winning in November.

TW, "Elliot Spitzer came to office on a moderate platform, driven by a vague, advertising-hyped promise to change "everything." We've had a lot of big promises lately"

Oh. Now I get it. Spitzer = Obama. I guess all of his work as AG was just speechifying. He wasn't ready. He was too much talk, not enough solutions. If you must draw lessons from Spitzer's plummet, it started in earnest well before this spectacular example of the Politics of Personal Self-Destruction. It started with Spitzer's heavy-handed, trample-all-opposition approach to being governor.

Of course decent people have sympathy for Spitzer's family, but that will be difficult to maintain if the Governor continues to abuse his own family by staying on and fighting out of a senseless impulse of self-preservation. I agree that there is more to the story, including the real possibility that the timing and leaking were politically motivated. Those aspects will be drown out entirely if Spitzer tries to hang on now that he's been revealed to be a hypocrite of the highest order. His ability to serve, which was based on his credentials as an upstanding, principled crime-fighter and a reform crusader, are irretrievably gone. If he values the things he publicly stood for (and privately betrayed) he must immediately step down. Even in advance of working out an optimal deal with prosecutors.

I have already heard from Hillary supporters, and tellingly, McCain supporters, that the sympathy people feel for Mrs. Spitzer will actually work for Hillary. Do you remember what Pseudolus said to Hero, in, "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum", when Hero asked if the fact that his love, Philia, was a common courtesan, was a bad thing? "Well there's no way to make it sound like an achievement".

I understand the deep need for Hillary supporters to try and wish away the world, but does anyone realistically think the news will be scrubbed of this scandalous beaut of a story, because it might reflect poorly on Hillary?

Whatever you think about Spitzer (and I always thought the guy was a bit unhinged) his fall will set the cause of political reform in New York back a lot and thus will hurt a lot of people. Therefore you've got to wonder about the comments by so called progressives like Al Giordano.

Obahma seems like a nice enough guy, but some of his supporters really make my skin crawl.

ooh, not the creepy-crawlie things! so you are afraid obama is turning his admirers into small bugs? or you are afraid that people idolize him too much? what was that quote... something about how the artisan does not make the idol, but rather the worshipers. anyone who does their job well likely has a few. but hell, it didn't make the beatles any more frightening, and it doesn't detract from the pope's magnificence, and, for that matter, it didn't make Jim Jones any more of a freak - no, his exploitation of his followers trust earned that title for him. might i suggest you have your own reservations about obama and thus your apprehension toward those who don't have any serves as your own red herring. i suspect you distrust him for some quality of his own, not his followers.

if obama were to get elected, and something bad ever happens, in retrospect you will say "i never trusted that obama guy". just as a lot of people are now saying "i never trusted that spitzer guy". who do we trust to bear the flags and change things for the better? if we are inherently afraid of progressives without defining what exactly about them makes us hesitant, then we are merely impeding progress for no good reason.

so fine, say you suspected that spitzer was too arrogant, but don't tell me he sounded like he was too promising.

I agree with you, Tom and see you point of view all too well here, regarding the timing.

(Had Guiliani worked this game he would have quickly married his favorite lady, whoever she or he--the "he" aiming for inclusiveness and how well it would sit beneath that long ago big tent theory.)

Yet why am I not surprised? Perhaps it's my special and profound suspicion of vehemently self-righteous people, especially those in a position to obviously relish meteing out the harshment punishments possible.

Muataman, I tried reading your paragraphs but they didn't make any sense to me. Can you please re-write them to where we can understand what your points are? I think in your diatribe you implied that Obama is good at his job. I'd like to know what you base that on. How many votes has he missed as a US Senator? As a state legislator? How many meetings or hearings has he convened as a chairman? How much time does he spend in Washington doing the job that the good citizens of Illinois entrusted him with and the good tax payers of the US pay him for? Forgetting partisanship, wouldn't it be fair to say that he has been arguably the least effective senator in Congress? How do you think that would translate to running the worlds largest bureaucracy? The most powerful military force on the planet?

I'll try to make it a little simpler for you, Gregoryp:

1. Spitzer has previously shown that he is a bully, sort of a liberal Giuliani.
2. However, despite his negative characteristics, and despite my negative feelings about his personality, he is a political progressive and his demise will set back the progressive cause in New York and hurt therefore hurt a lot of people.
3. It is not good that people like Al Giordano, who call themselves progressives, are having glee at Spitzers demise because he is a Clinton backer, regardless of the harm this will do to progressivesa and liberals in New York.
4. Obahma seems like a nice guy. No inference should be drawn from this statement as to how good I think he is at his job or how good a president I think he will he will make. Its a roll of the dice.
5. A lot of Obahma supporters, like Al Giordano, bother me.

Sorry If I did't make my point clearer for you but I write with the assumption that the reader is smarter than a fith grader. My mistake.

I don't know if this is all that political. It seems to me to be some sort of personal morality play, a Shakespearian tragedy.

How can Spitzer do anything BUT resign? They're obviously going to prosecute him if he doesn't.

As to the timing, Tom, the whole thing happened very fast. The tryst where they "got the goods" on him only happened three weeks ago.

Is it your contention that other politicians at the level of governor are going around using high priced prostitutes from escort services? I am not making a moral judgement. But it seeems so incredibly reckless and hubristic.

I agree with Bruce, it's not that political (though the prosecutor's background seems interesting if you're into that kind of thing) - it's a titanic fall from grace. And no Spitzer does not equal Obama - you can't possibly suggest there's any connection in the Governor's behavior to another man's. Rather, it's the big promise of change unfullfilled - not so much because of this sex scandal, as for Spitzer's political incompetence in dealing with the legislature.

And Ralph's right - this is very bad for New York.

More and more, it seems that Senator Obama's supporters have no Party but the Obamaparty and no country but Obamanation. Have a lot of Paul fans and Naderites defected to Obama? I get the same feeling from both-democracy is too messy, let's just annoint some savior and have ourselves a cozy, progressive or libertarian (conservative who wants access to abortions) style dictatorship.

I noticed that Maureen Dowd somehow ended her column on the Spitzer affair with her twice-weekly attack on Hillary. The woman has no shame. When was the last time she published a column that DIDN'T attack Hillary?

Here is her none-too-seamless segue:

Even as Governor Spitzer struggled with the sex story on Tuesday, the Clinton campaign struggled with the envy story.

Everyone always muttered about Spitzer's personality quirks without following the hints and imagining what was really behind the curtains. I think at this point its fair game to speculate about what is behind the curtains with Maureen Dowd. Why is she so OBSESSED with Hillary? What's REALLY going on?

Thank GOD we've beaten terrorism, so now the FBI can go after johns. Praise Jeebus!

I am mad at James Wolcott - he did a beg-a-post for donations to Al and i dropped him some cash thinking he was a fair person. UH, not so much. :-)James - send me a check!!

And Bruce, come on, arent there better people to read and comment on then MoDo? Talk about boring. David Brooks and MoDo - dull as dishwater. I'd rather watch an epsiode of Gossip Girl - the writing is better! :-)

Giordano, citing Politico's Ben Smith (a Clinton supporter) wrote:

Governors are superdelegates, and Paterson supports Clinton, but Paterson, in his role as Democratic National Committee member, is already a superdelegate, which means at the moment when NY Governor Spitzer resigns, Clinton's delegate tally will drop by one.

That's a statement of fact.

Gloating is your word and your projection, but it's apparently enough to make some commenters here hate Giordano and/or Obama and/or facts.

Judith,

point well taken.

But I can't stop reading MoDo. It's a guilty addiction -- Eliot Spitzer would understand.

bruce b - that one was a little off to left field.

You all have very important things to say and you have a point. And with regard to Elliot Spitzer's downfall, I think he deserves it.

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